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	<title>Comments on: Existential Fret</title>
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	<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bookmarks about Existential</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-9903</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookmarks about Existential</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-9903</guid>
		<description>[...] - bookmarked by 6 members originally found by dwc on 2008-08-07  Existential Fret  http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/ - bookmarked by 4 members [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] - bookmarked by 6 members originally found by dwc on 2008-08-07  Existential Fret  <a href="http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/</a> - bookmarked by 4 members [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4974</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4974</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As was observed in the comments section there, terrorists cannot destroy us but they could get us to destroy ourselves. I’m not sure what it would take to provoke us into self-destruction, but my fear is that the answer would be “Not very much.” I look at what we did in response to 9/11, and then I wonder what we would do if there was, say, a wave of car-bombings. And I get scared.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Well said, sir.  There is no existential threat to the U.S. from terrorists.  Taking out a city or two, while horrible, is not the end of the U.S. - we have cold war contingency plans for that.  No terrorist has access to weapons on the scale of the USSR.   It's not an existential threat, but a psychological one - and, therefore, one where our response is everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As was observed in the comments section there, terrorists cannot destroy us but they could get us to destroy ourselves. I’m not sure what it would take to provoke us into self-destruction, but my fear is that the answer would be “Not very much.” I look at what we did in response to 9/11, and then I wonder what we would do if there was, say, a wave of car-bombings. And I get scared.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well said, sir.  There is no existential threat to the U.S. from terrorists.  Taking out a city or two, while horrible, is not the end of the U.S. - we have cold war contingency plans for that.  No terrorist has access to weapons on the scale of the USSR.   It&#8217;s not an existential threat, but a psychological one - and, therefore, one where our response is everything.</p>
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		<title>By: Dain</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4826</link>
		<dc:creator>Dain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4826</guid>
		<description>Well actually wasn't the KKK initially a collection of rag tag ex-confederate soldiers, poverty stricken after a war they lost (and were probably drafted into)? Certainly today the KKK hardly represents the ruling class, but relatively poor rural folks with, yes, limited opportunities and political voice.

A friend of mine worked with troubled youth here in northern California. One of the more popular symbols to draw by poor, abused, neglected white kids was the swastika.

The "creative synthesizers" of terrorism are indeed often middle class educated folks with lots of opportunity, but due to their idealism they shun this in order to harp on grievances that are often justified. The "rabble", however, is attracted to these folks because they seem to, though perhaps incorrectly, provide an explanation for the poverty and limited opportunities the ordinary person confronts. The actual recruitment of lesser terrorists depends on certain actions at the margin - foreign occupation in the case of Al Qaeda - that actually push people to &lt;i&gt;act&lt;/i&gt; on terrorist sympathy rather than simply provide widespread passive or rhetorical support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well actually wasn&#8217;t the KKK initially a collection of rag tag ex-confederate soldiers, poverty stricken after a war they lost (and were probably drafted into)? Certainly today the KKK hardly represents the ruling class, but relatively poor rural folks with, yes, limited opportunities and political voice.</p>
<p>A friend of mine worked with troubled youth here in northern California. One of the more popular symbols to draw by poor, abused, neglected white kids was the swastika.</p>
<p>The &#8220;creative synthesizers&#8221; of terrorism are indeed often middle class educated folks with lots of opportunity, but due to their idealism they shun this in order to harp on grievances that are often justified. The &#8220;rabble&#8221;, however, is attracted to these folks because they seem to, though perhaps incorrectly, provide an explanation for the poverty and limited opportunities the ordinary person confronts. The actual recruitment of lesser terrorists depends on certain actions at the margin - foreign occupation in the case of Al Qaeda - that actually push people to <i>act</i> on terrorist sympathy rather than simply provide widespread passive or rhetorical support.</p>
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		<title>By: ajay</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4808</link>
		<dc:creator>ajay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4808</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Terrorism is not, as many have pointed out, a product of poverty; it is a product of lack of opportunity + limited political rights...&lt;/i&gt;

A hypothesis that completely fails to explain most of the terrorist attacks in US history. Timothy McVeigh? Eric Rudolph? The Ku Klux Klan? Did they really have "limited political rights"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Terrorism is not, as many have pointed out, a product of poverty; it is a product of lack of opportunity + limited political rights&#8230;</i></p>
<p>A hypothesis that completely fails to explain most of the terrorist attacks in US history. Timothy McVeigh? Eric Rudolph? The Ku Klux Klan? Did they really have &#8220;limited political rights&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Dain</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4778</link>
		<dc:creator>Dain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4778</guid>
		<description>I remember hearing Dutch native Ian Buruma speak about his view of the difference between Holland and the US with regard to immigrants. In the US, they've got to assimilate (to a degree after all, religious freedom and autonomy are typical here) into the "melting pot" of the market place. The extended order of discrete individuals interacting to inadvertently extend tolerance within a frame of property rights. (My wordy and optimistic classical liberal way of putting it.) 

In Holland, on the other hand, they've got state sponsored religious institutions and generational welfare/non-citizens which prevents them from a feeling of being on the "inside", as opposed to "outside". A perceived sense of difference and aloofness is made  official.

Also noteworthy, Muslims in the US tend to be wealthier than their European counterparts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember hearing Dutch native Ian Buruma speak about his view of the difference between Holland and the US with regard to immigrants. In the US, they&#8217;ve got to assimilate (to a degree after all, religious freedom and autonomy are typical here) into the &#8220;melting pot&#8221; of the market place. The extended order of discrete individuals interacting to inadvertently extend tolerance within a frame of property rights. (My wordy and optimistic classical liberal way of putting it.) </p>
<p>In Holland, on the other hand, they&#8217;ve got state sponsored religious institutions and generational welfare/non-citizens which prevents them from a feeling of being on the &#8220;inside&#8221;, as opposed to &#8220;outside&#8221;. A perceived sense of difference and aloofness is made  official.</p>
<p>Also noteworthy, Muslims in the US tend to be wealthier than their European counterparts.</p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4773</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4773</guid>
		<description>I would also add that authoritarian countries are quite good at clamping down on violent dissent. It's one of the few things they're good at. There have been a number of successful communist revolutions, but once they seize power despite all their abuses no counter-revolution is viable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would also add that authoritarian countries are quite good at clamping down on violent dissent. It&#8217;s one of the few things they&#8217;re good at. There have been a number of successful communist revolutions, but once they seize power despite all their abuses no counter-revolution is viable.</p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4772</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4772</guid>
		<description>I don't think the U.K is more intolerant of Muslims. I think it just has a lot more of them and they haven't been screened like the immigrants to the U.S. It is a simple problem to solve regardless of the motivations of the terrorists if we simply &lt;a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2007/11/24/stop-immigration-from-terrorist-producing-countries/" rel="nofollow"&gt;stop immigration from terrorist producing countries&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the U.K is more intolerant of Muslims. I think it just has a lot more of them and they haven&#8217;t been screened like the immigrants to the U.S. It is a simple problem to solve regardless of the motivations of the terrorists if we simply <a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2007/11/24/stop-immigration-from-terrorist-producing-countries/" rel="nofollow">stop immigration from terrorist producing countries</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: thoreau</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4752</link>
		<dc:creator>thoreau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/06/26/existential-fret/#comment-4752</guid>
		<description>As was observed in the comments section there, terrorists cannot destroy us but they could get us to destroy ourselves.  I'm not sure what it would take to provoke us into self-destruction, but my fear is that the answer would be "Not very much."  I look at what we did in response to 9/11, and then I wonder what we would do if there was, say, a wave of car-bombings.  And I get scared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As was observed in the comments section there, terrorists cannot destroy us but they could get us to destroy ourselves.  I&#8217;m not sure what it would take to provoke us into self-destruction, but my fear is that the answer would be &#8220;Not very much.&#8221;  I look at what we did in response to 9/11, and then I wonder what we would do if there was, say, a wave of car-bombings.  And I get scared.</p>
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