<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Where Did Berkeley Get Its Reputation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2695</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 18:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2695</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the interpretation, Thoreau.  

But arguments that grant legitimacy to exceptions allowing torture are always wrong -- much less when they form part of a formal petition asking the university to examine the question of sanctioning a tenured faculty member for his actions outside the university.  

What Yoo did is so reprehensible because it was wilfully criminal -- designed to "legalize" something Yoo knows cannot be legalized.  Period.   Not because it was the worst of the worst, although it was that, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the interpretation, Thoreau.  </p>
<p>But arguments that grant legitimacy to exceptions allowing torture are always wrong &#8212; much less when they form part of a formal petition asking the university to examine the question of sanctioning a tenured faculty member for his actions outside the university.  </p>
<p>What Yoo did is so reprehensible because it was wilfully criminal &#8212; designed to &#8220;legalize&#8221; something Yoo knows cannot be legalized.  Period.   Not because it was the worst of the worst, although it was that, too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thoreau</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2651</link>
		<dc:creator>thoreau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 18:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2651</guid>
		<description>Yoo turned it up to 11.  He took it even further than the level where many people (rightly or wrongly) saw it as "debatable."  The point is that even those who (however wrongly) might support torture in some particular context should &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; condemn Yoo's stand, because it goes further.

The "ticking time bomb" crowd is to Yoo as a common thief is to a child molester.  The thief and child molester are both in prison, but the child molester is at the bottom of the prison hierarchy. Yoo's stance is so bad that even the "ticking time bomb" crowd should condemn him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yoo turned it up to 11.  He took it even further than the level where many people (rightly or wrongly) saw it as &#8220;debatable.&#8221;  The point is that even those who (however wrongly) might support torture in some particular context should <i>still</i> condemn Yoo&#8217;s stand, because it goes further.</p>
<p>The &#8220;ticking time bomb&#8221; crowd is to Yoo as a common thief is to a child molester.  The thief and child molester are both in prison, but the child molester is at the bottom of the prison hierarchy. Yoo&#8217;s stance is so bad that even the &#8220;ticking time bomb&#8221; crowd should condemn him.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2645</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 14:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2645</guid>
		<description>Then why preface your description of Yoo's actions this way at all?

&lt;i&gt;the role played by John Yoo in the Bush administration’s policy of subjecting to torture not high-ranking Al Qaeda members with information about ticking bombs but low-level prisoners irrespective of their guilt or innocence or of any information suggesting their guilt or innocence.&lt;/i&gt;

If you're committed to the legally sound principle that all torture is criminal, then just get right to it:  &lt;i&gt;...policy of subjecting prisoners to torture. &lt;/i&gt;

It's just as criminal to torture the guilty as the innocent.  It requires just as much disregard for responsible, professional legal reasoning as Yoo showed.

Save your arguments about high-level al-Qaeda operatives vs. Afghan farmers for the one-on-one hallway persuasion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then why preface your description of Yoo&#8217;s actions this way at all?</p>
<p><i>the role played by John Yoo in the Bush administration’s policy of subjecting to torture not high-ranking Al Qaeda members with information about ticking bombs but low-level prisoners irrespective of their guilt or innocence or of any information suggesting their guilt or innocence.</i></p>
<p>If you&#8217;re committed to the legally sound principle that all torture is criminal, then just get right to it:  <i>&#8230;policy of subjecting prisoners to torture. </i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s just as criminal to torture the guilty as the innocent.  It requires just as much disregard for responsible, professional legal reasoning as Yoo showed.</p>
<p>Save your arguments about high-level al-Qaeda operatives vs. Afghan farmers for the one-on-one hallway persuasion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brad DeLong</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2594</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad DeLong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 13:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2594</guid>
		<description>No. I would not be fine with Yoo if he had authorized only "ticking bomb" torture, for a lot of reasons. But we don't need to go into the "ticking bomb" debate, because that's not what he authorized. What he did was to tell everyone in America's armed forces that they have a duty to torture anyone, anytime the president tells them to.

It is bad to use the rack in ticking-bomb situations--to make the rack, in Blackstone's words, an "engine of state." It is much worse to make it a routine engine of the law...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. I would not be fine with Yoo if he had authorized only &#8220;ticking bomb&#8221; torture, for a lot of reasons. But we don&#8217;t need to go into the &#8220;ticking bomb&#8221; debate, because that&#8217;s not what he authorized. What he did was to tell everyone in America&#8217;s armed forces that they have a duty to torture anyone, anytime the president tells them to.</p>
<p>It is bad to use the rack in ticking-bomb situations&#8211;to make the rack, in Blackstone&#8217;s words, an &#8220;engine of state.&#8221; It is much worse to make it a routine engine of the law&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2588</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 12:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2588</guid>
		<description>I've now read DeLong's letter, and I start hating it almost immediately.  Sounds as if he'd be fine with Yoo if he'd only authorized "ticking bomb" torture.

Feh.  Just like DeLong:  huffy outrage, but selective.

Let's prosecute instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve now read DeLong&#8217;s letter, and I start hating it almost immediately.  Sounds as if he&#8217;d be fine with Yoo if he&#8217;d only authorized &#8220;ticking bomb&#8221; torture.</p>
<p>Feh.  Just like DeLong:  huffy outrage, but selective.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s prosecute instead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mona</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2559</link>
		<dc:creator>Mona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 00:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2559</guid>
		<description>In virtually every jurisdiction, it violates the Rules of Professional Responsibility for an attorney to counsel a client on how to commit a future crime (and is itself a crime).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In virtually every jurisdiction, it violates the Rules of Professional Responsibility for an attorney to counsel a client on how to commit a future crime (and is itself a crime).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joh Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2556</link>
		<dc:creator>Joh Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 23:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2556</guid>
		<description>Oddly enough, the Justice Department just filed criminal charges against an attorney in Miami who was Al Gore's counselor in the 2000 run off for issuing a legal opinion. A good summary of the story is here: http://www.law.com/jsp/PubArticle.jsp?id=900005634208

This is a precedent that USC, Berkeley should consider. If the Justice Department considers it a criminal offense to issue a legal opinion in violation of the law, surely John Yoo will be indicted any day. Unless this is another law applied exclusively to Democrats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oddly enough, the Justice Department just filed criminal charges against an attorney in Miami who was Al Gore&#8217;s counselor in the 2000 run off for issuing a legal opinion. A good summary of the story is here: <a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/PubArticle.jsp?id=900005634208" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.com/jsp/PubArticle.jsp?id=900005634208</a></p>
<p>This is a precedent that USC, Berkeley should consider. If the Justice Department considers it a criminal offense to issue a legal opinion in violation of the law, surely John Yoo will be indicted any day. Unless this is another law applied exclusively to Democrats.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mona</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2543</link>
		<dc:creator>Mona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 18:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2543</guid>
		<description>Jim this is a jewel among Henley posts. As you've said before: "Sometimes ya gotta work blue." This is one of those times.

And yes, they are shitting you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim this is a jewel among Henley posts. As you&#8217;ve said before: &#8220;Sometimes ya gotta work blue.&#8221; This is one of those times.</p>
<p>And yes, they are shitting you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2528</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2528</guid>
		<description>I'm stuck on the part where the mere drawing up of the committee to investigate the question is "defamatory".

Yoo's actions are &lt;i&gt;actions&lt;/i&gt; with horrific real world consequences, not random speech.  I remain convinced that war crimes trials are far better than handling this in the university -- and would spare its apparently scarce expertise in international relations, human rights, and moral philosophy.  But this is bullshvt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m stuck on the part where the mere drawing up of the committee to investigate the question is &#8220;defamatory&#8221;.</p>
<p>Yoo&#8217;s actions are <i>actions</i> with horrific real world consequences, not random speech.  I remain convinced that war crimes trials are far better than handling this in the university &#8212; and would spare its apparently scarce expertise in international relations, human rights, and moral philosophy.  But this is bullshvt.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thoreau</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2516</link>
		<dc:creator>thoreau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 05:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/05/07/where-did-berkeley-get-its-reputation/#comment-2516</guid>
		<description>Berkeley's over-rated.  All the really good scientists go to UCSB.

Not that I'm biased, or anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Berkeley&#8217;s over-rated.  All the really good scientists go to UCSB.</p>
<p>Not that I&#8217;m biased, or anything.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
