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	<title>Comments on: Meritocracy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-578</guid>
		<description>Speaking of that, I was reading &lt;a href="http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9246" rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; by Brink Lindsay and surprised that even though the AFQT was a vital part of his argument, he never mentioned "IQ". I came to there after watching &lt;a href="http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/9740?in=00:48:19&#38;out=01:06:58" rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; diavlog between him and Josh Cohen, where (despite his claims to be a libertarian) he advocates a massive, expensive state-sponsored project of social experimentation to uproot people from ghettos and move them to different neighborhoods despite the fact that small-scale attempts at that have shown NO IMPROVEMENT other than in terms of mental health.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of that, I was reading <a href="http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9246" rel="nofollow">this</a> by Brink Lindsay and surprised that even though the AFQT was a vital part of his argument, he never mentioned &#8220;IQ&#8221;. I came to there after watching <a href="http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/9740?in=00:48:19&amp;out=01:06:58" rel="nofollow">this</a> diavlog between him and Josh Cohen, where (despite his claims to be a libertarian) he advocates a massive, expensive state-sponsored project of social experimentation to uproot people from ghettos and move them to different neighborhoods despite the fact that small-scale attempts at that have shown NO IMPROVEMENT other than in terms of mental health.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin_carson</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-575</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin_carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-575</guid>
		<description>Dain,

You're right that advancement in the meritocracy is possible on an individual level.  The point is that it's a fallacy of composition to say it can be done by everyone; the shape of the pyramid limits the number of positions available at the apex.  And even though effort and expenditure on education may make meritocratic advancement possibe for many, the very fact that the state promotes deskilling of labor and inflates the educational and credentially requirements for advancement, acts in practice as a sort of entry barrier that forces the average person to jump through more hoops to attain comfortable subsistence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dain,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that advancement in the meritocracy is possible on an individual level.  The point is that it&#8217;s a fallacy of composition to say it can be done by everyone; the shape of the pyramid limits the number of positions available at the apex.  And even though effort and expenditure on education may make meritocratic advancement possibe for many, the very fact that the state promotes deskilling of labor and inflates the educational and credentially requirements for advancement, acts in practice as a sort of entry barrier that forces the average person to jump through more hoops to attain comfortable subsistence.</p>
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		<title>By: Dain</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Dain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-573</guid>
		<description>So then I guess I'm somewhat perplexed by the systematic differences among groups in their ability to rise out of this pool-of-proles. Luck can't explain even most of this gap because it's too predictive. Immigrants vs. natives: the former seem to get out of it, the latter not as much. And just looking at the numbers it appears that those at the VERY bottom have more mobility, because they only have one place to go: Up. So it isn't a myth, even if it's harder to advance than a neo-con would claim. 

I'm certainly sympathetic to the idea that these are not things one should aspire TO - that is, the ranks of the New Class - but the generational poverty traps seem relegated to precisely those that our state capitalist system has attempted to "help" with state welfare. But I think that's also your point. After all, immigrants typically HAVE that horizontal distribution of wealth and bonds of solidarity that have greatly contributed to their relative material succcess.

I remember reading Bryan Caplan (I know, Kevin) on the paradox of both upstanding personal behavior and willingness to follow the law, no matter how nonsensical or unjust, as complementary traits. That's a shame, and explains why college educated people are physically harmless and often intellectual conversational companions, yet also more likely headed for the halls of power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So then I guess I&#8217;m somewhat perplexed by the systematic differences among groups in their ability to rise out of this pool-of-proles. Luck can&#8217;t explain even most of this gap because it&#8217;s too predictive. Immigrants vs. natives: the former seem to get out of it, the latter not as much. And just looking at the numbers it appears that those at the VERY bottom have more mobility, because they only have one place to go: Up. So it isn&#8217;t a myth, even if it&#8217;s harder to advance than a neo-con would claim. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m certainly sympathetic to the idea that these are not things one should aspire TO - that is, the ranks of the New Class - but the generational poverty traps seem relegated to precisely those that our state capitalist system has attempted to &#8220;help&#8221; with state welfare. But I think that&#8217;s also your point. After all, immigrants typically HAVE that horizontal distribution of wealth and bonds of solidarity that have greatly contributed to their relative material succcess.</p>
<p>I remember reading Bryan Caplan (I know, Kevin) on the paradox of both upstanding personal behavior and willingness to follow the law, no matter how nonsensical or unjust, as complementary traits. That&#8217;s a shame, and explains why college educated people are physically harmless and often intellectual conversational companions, yet also more likely headed for the halls of power.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin_carson</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin_carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-572</guid>
		<description>Thanks, TGGP.  I'd forgotten about that excellent 2Blowhards piece.  Was it you that originally directed me to it?  It ties in very well with the earlier post on the corporation:  a class of managers whose power comes from the control of organizations rather than the ownership of property, profiting from the corporation's capital in the same way an owner would, but without the risk of personal loss that would come with actual ownership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, TGGP.  I&#8217;d forgotten about that excellent 2Blowhards piece.  Was it you that originally directed me to it?  It ties in very well with the earlier post on the corporation:  a class of managers whose power comes from the control of organizations rather than the ownership of property, profiting from the corporation&#8217;s capital in the same way an owner would, but without the risk of personal loss that would come with actual ownership.</p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-565</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theartofthepossible.net/2008/03/28/meritocracy/#comment-565</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of Friedrich von Blowhard's "&lt;a href="http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/01/the_new_class_a.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;New Class&lt;/a&gt;".

I disagree on the necessity of consumers. Money is just paper, it is useful only because of its relation to actual goods and services. What the proletariat provide is their labor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of Friedrich von Blowhard&#8217;s &#8220;<a href="http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2008/01/the_new_class_a.html" rel="nofollow">New Class</a>&#8220;.</p>
<p>I disagree on the necessity of consumers. Money is just paper, it is useful only because of its relation to actual goods and services. What the proletariat provide is their labor.</p>
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